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Ship Of Theseus and Locke's Socks
The Ship of Theseus is a paradox also known as Theseus' paradox. It raises the question of whether an object, which has had all its component parts replaced, remains fundamentally the same. What do you conclude about the cases below? What would you say about a case where you were gradually replaced by parts from your clone? Would 'you' cease to exist at some point, or can you survive a complete replacement of your parts over time?
Ship Of Theseus
According to Greek legend as reported by Plutarch,
“ The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.
A more modern version here.
Locke's Socks
John Locke proposed a scenario regarding a favorite sock that develops a hole. He questioned whether the sock would still be the same after a patch was applied to the hole. If yes, then, would it still be the same sock after a second patch was applied? Indeed, would it still be the same sock many years later, even after all of the material of the original sock has been replaced with patches?
Ship Of Theseus
According to Greek legend as reported by Plutarch,
“ The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.
A more modern version here.
Locke's Socks
John Locke proposed a scenario regarding a favorite sock that develops a hole. He questioned whether the sock would still be the same after a patch was applied to the hole. If yes, then, would it still be the same sock after a second patch was applied? Indeed, would it still be the same sock many years later, even after all of the material of the original sock has been replaced with patches?
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| Started By | Thread Subject | Replies | Last Post | ||
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| Tonie12 | The Ship of Theseus and Lock's Sock | 1 | Jan 3 2013, 2:55 PM EST by Anonymous | ||
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Thread started: Jan 19 2011, 9:54 PM EST
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Replacing an object’s entire component parts perhaps with the passage of time as was the case with the ship of Theseuse and Lock’s sox, will fundamentally change the object. Although the original form of the object might have been preserved as was the case in this instance, the fact of the matter still remains that the wood used in the original build for the ship, might not have been the same as that used for the replacement parts. But even if the wood was of the same tree specie, it might most likely not have been from the same tree stock as that used in the original work. Most certainly, the craftsmanship was not the same since the tools used in the original build might not have been employed in making the replacement parts, nor where the parts made by the same individuals. So yes, I submit that although we might attempt to, and possibly succeed remarkably well at the art of replacing the component parts of an object, the fundamental essence of that object would have been lost, but we might preserve the vision of what that object represents.
With respect to my being replaced component by component from parts obtained from my clone; while this might be a life saving measure to some degree, I will cease to be me when my faculty is impacted. Should my brain or the key elements of my central nervous system are replaced; then, the essence of who I’m would have been lost. For my thoughts at that time might no longer be truly mine as possible sources of adulterations might have been introduced by the replacement process. |
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| vrussell08 | The Ship and The Sock. | 0 | Sep 12 2010, 8:09 PM EDT by vrussell08 | ||
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Thread started: Sep 12 2010, 8:09 PM EDT
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If an object like Theseus' ship or Lock's sock were replaced piece by piece then by the end they would be technically a different objects. If the entirety of the ship and the sock were replaced by new materials then compared to what they started out with they would be different a different ship and a different sock. However, if you think of what these objects mean to their owners then there is something else to consider. If the ship keeps getting rebuilt but to Theseus it is his ship that he has gone though a lot with, then is it really a different ship? In that case i think it is the same ship. The ship or the sock has not taken on a new identity. To Theseus it is still his ship, just with replacements.
If i was replaced piece by piece by a clone would I still be me after the last replacement? I would say that until my brain was replaced that I would still be me unless the clone had all of my memories and experiences, then I would still be me if my entire body was replaced. I would still be me because the clone has all of my DNA so technically it is me and if the clone has my memories and experiences too then I would be no matter how much of my body is replaced. However, if the clone didn't have my experiences and memories then i would cease to exist as soon as my brain was replaced. |
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| deedsamene | response to Socks | 1 | Sep 12 2010, 5:51 AM EDT by sthart | ||
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Thread started: Dec 18 2008, 3:16 PM EST
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I think that it is not the same, it has taken on a new identity. If different things on you were replaced by something else, you cant help but think that things will be different. There are many different movies today, with the same premise, and all of them say that things chnage with new parts. That doesnt mean you can not accept them, but I think they will change you as a person.
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